Wednesday, January 7, 2009

Dear Statehouse Protestors:

On Friday a group marched around the Statehouse in downtown Columbus several times as part of the ‘End the Occupation’(http://www.endtheoccupation.org/article.php?id=1773) group. They were protesting the bombings of Gaza by Israel(http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ISRAEL_PALESTINIANS?SITE=OHCOL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT). Basically, they were walking around the building, waving flags, chanting, and being escorted by some of Columbus’ finest mounted officers. Trust me, the horses were the most entertaining part.


So, anyways, there is a group of disgruntled Muslims marching around our statehouse simply to protest the actions that another country is committing against their people. Does that make any sense to you? I mean, why would Columbus, or Toledo, or Cinci, or even Akron (they have protested at all) have to do with Israel bombing the West Bank? Sure, it is all nice to have a obvious statement against something, but when we can not do anything, I see it as more of a waste of time. What can Columbus do to help the Palestinians out?


I mean, when was the last time that you saw people marching around our statehouse wanting the US to get involved in Darfur? Nope, they are all doing it online, where there is a larger impact, and where you can get more people. Marching in locations which have no say in the matter is useless. Go march in Washington (where the US does have some policy say on Israel). Or go march around the Israeli Embassy (where it will be heard). Go march somewhere where it actually matters, and where you are not wasting our state’s resources. Better yet, go march in Israel as a protest.


Actually, on a side note, don’t march in Israel; odds are that they will kill you and your family.


36 comments:

Anonymous said...

I just think some people have the need to participate in those types of things just to be ‘seen’ belonging to something or doing something, even if they don’t necessarily support the cause. If they really truly did, they would be putting their efforts towards something that would actually make a difference???

Ander said...

there is a lot we can do. we can vote the people out of office who continue to vote to send aid to Israel. those weapons were not manufactured in Israel. Those F-16's and tanks were paid for by us and sent to them to use. We could end the conflict rather quickly if we wanted. The two-state solution was accepted by palestinians but the US keeps it from happening. All they want is the same rights as Jews instead of being subjected to bombings, random searches, checkpoints, and economically strangled.

Ander said...

http://www.fas.org/man/crs/IB85066.pdf

http://www.angelfire.com/rnb//y/israel.htm#chart

Barga said...

@anonymous
You are a mean person, but I agree with everything you say

Barga said...

@Ander

Does a country have the right to protect itself? If so, then how can you justify not helping them protect themselves. Palistine is part of Israel, not a seperate country

Ander said...

Protect themselves from what? Israel is the military superpower in the reigon. They have more nuclear weapons than Great Britain. This is hardly defense. They have hundreds of war planes and hundreds of tanks. What do the Palestinians have? Nothing. They have AK's and shoulder mounted rockets. How many Israli's have died? 13. 4 Soliders from friendly fire and 3 civilians from rocket fire. 10 soldiers died only because they went on the offensive. How many have died in Gaza? 800. Most being civilians, women and children. With thousands more injured. Israel says their objectives aren't even complete yet. You really can apologoze and justify this with an argument for the right to self defence? How are hospitals, schools, and homes, apart of Hamas infastructure? What did a family of 3 children and a mother hiding in their house to do deserve a rocket in their living room?

Yes Palestine is apart of Israel. Israel is occupying their territory. Israel is a military occupation. There are roads built around Palestinian settlements and checkpoints setup everywhere. They have quarantined a population. The allocation of economic resources is so disproportionate it's disgusting. Israeli settlers get food, water, gas, electricity, while palestinians have no freedom or rights in their own lands, and large numbers are being displaced for the second and even third time.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2451908450811690589

Barga said...

"Protect themselves from what? Israel is the military superpower in the reigon. "

--This is irrelevant. If somebody throws a brick at me, I am going to lay the smackdown on them. That is all this is--


"They have more nuclear weapons than Great Britain."

-source. And, as they will not use them if they had them, this is pointless--


"How many Israli's have died? 13. 4 Soliders from friendly fire and 3 civilians from rocket fire. 10 soldiers died only because they went on the offensive. How many have died in Gaza? 800."

--Somebody smacks me, i can only hit them in the same place with the exact same force?--


"How are hospitals, schools, and homes, apart of Hamas infastructure? "

--Because they keep weapons there, that is how--


"Yes Palestine is apart of Israel. Israel is occupying their territory. Israel is a military occupation."

--that is irrelevant. Arguably we are occupying Indian land... Palistine is part of Israel, not a sepefate but occupied country--


"Israeli settlers get food, water, gas, electricity, while palestinians have no freedom or rights in their own lands"

--1, it is not their land. 2) find me any country that it isn't like that

Ander said...

listen to yourself justify the slaughter of a population. Do you agree with the shooting and killing of women and children in Vietnam that happened? Apparently women and children are now terrorists.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11567


the first point is totally relevant. This is an offensive military operation.

What would you do after 60 years of relentless oppression and repression, after coming to agreement after agreement only to have it squandered in the UN by the United States? I might finally throw a brick.



http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/

http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/3747/israels_openly_secret_nukes/


and the point is, you should be asking why people would be firing tiny rockets at a nuclear armed enemy. My guess is they are getting pretty desperate. The only reason a radical group has popular support and was elected was because they are the only ones crazy enough to take a physical stand against the US and Israel.


What I would do if someone hit me is call them a tool and walk away. and I have been punched in the face for my opinion so yes I can say that is what I would do. It's really not that hard and the other person feels like a huge douche when you just stand there and take it.

If anything, Palestine is on defense and has been for 60 years.


Ah yes the undefined, everywhere enemy! So since they are everywhere and really hard to find, we'll just blow the shit out of everything, hospitals, schools whatever we need to do to make sure they are gone... We may kill 10 people for everyone "bad guy" but hey at least that's one less terrorist on the street!

They don't have a single plane or tank to their name.


What's irrelevant is who's land is being occupied. The point is it is being militarily occupied by people who were not there 60 years ago.

It's not their land?!@#$ What the hell are they so pissed for then? have you looked at what the israeli's have done to those people on a map? They have displaced and relocated millions of people two even three times. Roads have been built around where they live with checkpoints in and out that take hours to get through. Food is scarce since they were pushed off arable land that they used to farm, and fresh water is scarce. they are giant concentration camps.


On Wednesday(last week), Cardinal Renato Martino, president of the Vatican's Council for Justice and Peace voiced the Holy See's strongest criticism since the latest Mideast crisis began, calling Gaza a "big concentration camp", Reuters reported.

Martino made the statement while speaking in an interview with the Italian online newspaper Il Sussidiario.net.

"Defenseless populations are always the ones who pay. Look at the conditions in Gaza: more and more, it resembles a big concentration camp", Martino, (his informal title in the Vatican is "justice minister") said.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NwI0EKdRLY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kiyyp9cZdY0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5wrwZlwAq8

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-802851144676245446&ei=9mVtSfPeLISa-wHv86Fz&q=Gaza+war+crimes&hl=en&emb=1

Ander said...

There are two national groups that claim the right of self-determination in what used to be Palestine, roughly the area now occupied by Israel minus the Golan Heights, which is part of Syria.

So there are two national groups which claim national self-determination. One group is the indigenous population, or what's left of it -- a lot of it's been expelled or driven out or fled. The other group is the Jewish settlers who came in, originally from Europe, later from other parts of the Middle East and some other places.

The original population of Israel was around 800,000. It grew to 2.5 million by 1958 and is at 7.8 million now.

Barga said...

I believe that this is internal affairs and that no outside group should step in. You believe that one should. We can not solve this argument, so we should probably not have it

Ander said...

if no outside group should have involvement why do you support our arming of Israel and the billions we give them every year?

Ander said...

we are directly supporting and aiding the slaughter of thousands of people and absolutely have a choice in the matter.

Barga said...

Do you blame the gun makers if the gun kills somebody?
We are externally balancing ourselves, they are internally balancing

Ander said...

No I blame the people shooting the guns for the killing. I blame us for aiding an atrocity which is just as bad. They are exterminating an ethnic group with our support. It's illegal and the whole world wants it to stop. A cease fire was negotiated. 14 out of 15 countries wanted it, and again, the US squandered it in the UN and sent Israel more weapons. We know exactly what those weapons are going to be used for and we keep supplying them. If Israel wants to commit genocide then they can setup their own gun manufacturers and produce their own killing devices. For us to spend literally billions of our tax dollars on supporting a slaughter is insane. Why don't we send the people of palestine food and medicine with that billions? why don't we send israel flowers and food with that money? Why send killing machines?

Ander said...

you're original point was that we can't do anything about what Israel is doing the Palestinians. My point is we can do something about it because all the weapons they use are gifts from us and we vote no on every resolution in the UN.

Ander said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rCBJjCiLGc


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/16/phosphorus-bombs-video-israel-gaza

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=BAN20090115&articleId=11805

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=82434&sectionid=351020203

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=82510&sectionid=351020203

Whalertly said...

Neither we nor the UN have a right to tell Israel what or what not to do. Sure, we could stop sending them shipments, but then they would be destroyed. Hamas is just as responsible for this as Israel (they keep firing back and forth).

When did the palistinians become an ethnic group?

If you blame the person using the gun, then how can you blame the US?

Ander said...

then why is Israel allowed to enter the halls of the UN?

And you're right, we can't tell them what to do but we are giving them an option. to either stop their military offensive on a defenseless population or continue to kill hundreds of people and wound thousands more while destroying everything people have.

And what did Israel choose? to continue to murder people against, at the very least, the pleas of the palestinians, against the pleas of the "international community" and finally against the rulings of international law and its enforcement apparatus, that they themselves pay lip service to constantly and help develop.

All with US support and backing.

All of their guns were gifts. From us. We support illegal atrocities that could be prevented if simply stopped supplying them. We do it all over the world. We claim to have so much responsibility in the world to maintain peace and stability because "WE'RE NUMBER ONE" yet when it comes time to do that and pull the plug on our weapons shipments, we just keep sending guns everywhere because "it's in our interest."

If Israel wants to choose to murder innocent people they can do it without our support. They are big kids. It's been 60 years.

and yes ethnic was the wrong word to use.


People can't just do whatever they want because they believe it to be true. Isn't this what the Zionists were trying to escape from in Germany?

What your saying is that Israel is a sovereign nation that has a right to self determination and can do whatever it pleases according to what it stands for and believes in and can accomplish that by any means at their disposal. Even if that means killing thousands of innocent people.

The ends justify the means.

Do you understand doctors are afraid to raise white flags for help with victims because the IDF is shooting at innocent people?

They bombed a teachers association today. What's your excuse for that? They were filling the minds of young people with terrorist thoughts so we must just kill them all?




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUh6xVlndhM

Ander said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnLyDOjfusQ

Peter O said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHhs9ihSmbU&feature=channel_page

Ander, Israel has been going above and beyond what International Law says by texting warings to the neighbors of targets. Check out the IDF channel on youtube to see Hamas's Laws of War violations. Israel is fighting against a force whose political platform calls for the destruction of Israel and the massacre of jews. On the subject of teachers, Hamas's head rocketry guy had a day job teaching science at the UN school.

Ander said...

Pictures and videos of reality

-Video on day 9 of shelling, whole families obliterated
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpKhxocn_EE

-Norwegian doctor report from Gaza
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev6ojm62qwA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYKmA_o4lAE

-Israel shelled UN school compound killing 40 people
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=NvOZ301vbEs

-Father loses his parents, four children and other members of his family after the Israelis gather neighbors in one house and then shell it
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=mLEEEKCpSJ0

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Axy1cMWUxkg

-Another father who lost three children speaks in Hebrew to Ehud Barak
http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2009/01/06/to-israel-with-love/

-Video: the world lost its conscience?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHYjpOhcB2k

-Israel experimenting on civilians with new types of weapons:
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=oyFnE2Z5bpk

-Norwegian Dr. Mads Gilbert testimony in Gaza
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/dime.htm

-Use of white phosphorus over Gaza http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVY4NUKowzg

-Direct reports from Gaza by an International in Gaza: http://ingaza.wordpress.com/

-A haunting photo montage http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2009/01/16/war-on-gaza-surat-al-rahman/

-UK Telegraph Newspaper: "They said that after the Israeli army first took the town on Saturday night soldiers had ordered about 100 members of the clan to gather in a single house owned by Wael Samouni around dawn on Sunday. At 6.35am on Monday the house was repeatedly shelled with appalling loss of civilian life [killing 70]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/4162193/Gaza-medics-describe-horror-of-strike-which-killed-70.html


Facts on Gaza not well known

-Factsheet on Gaza
http://www.endtheoccupation.org/downloads/gaza_us_weapons.pdf


-Israel spokesperson admits Israel broke the cease fire agreement
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SILJxPTqjAM

CNN confirmed this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAhfDa0smsc


-Israeli Committee Against Home Demolitions “reframing” Gaza
http://icahd.org/eng/news.asp?menu=5&submenu=1&item=655


-Gaza Website http://gazasiege.org


-Vanity Fair reported in April last year: “After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current U.S. officials, the author reveals how President Bush, Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy National-Security Adviser Elliott Abrams [Zionist] backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever.”
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/gaza200804


-An inside story of how the US magnified Palestinian suffering. The covert push to empower Fatah failed. And isolating Hamas just made things worse. But it's not too late to change course.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0112/p09s01-coop.html


- Gaza invasion: Powered by the U.S.: Taxpayers are spending over $1 billion to send refined fuel to the Israeli military -- at a time when Israel doesn't need it and America does.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/01/16/gaza_invasion/index.html


- Still breathing, a report from Gaza by Caoimhe Butterly
http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=35030


- Sderot Residents Contradict Israeli Government Propaganda
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2009/01/15/500-citizens-of-sderot-contradict-the-is


DECLARATIONS

UN High commissioner for Human Rights report on Gaza (Rauthor Richard Falk is himself Jewish)
http://gazasiege.org/docs/gaza_crisis_08/GazaCrisis_UN_Falk_Pressrelease_12_27_08.pdf


Red Cross: Israel breaking Int'l law, letting children starve in Gaza
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1053877.html


International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies said that the situation in Gaza was "completely and utterly unacceptable based on every known standard of international law and universal humanitarian principles and values.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gjiqWO2pxDjmb0u29sn4O5e8LC0w


Israeli Human Rights groups: Clear and present danger to the lives and well-being of tens of thousands of civilians: An Israeli Call For Urgent Humanitarian Action In Gaza
http://www.btselem.org/English/Press_Releases/20090114.asp


Human Rights Watch demands Israel stop using White Phosphorus incendiary shells on civilian populations
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/01/10/israel-stop-unlawful-use-white-phosphorus-gaza


World Health Organization condemns Israeli attacks on hospitals
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/statements/2009/Gaza-health-20090115/en/index.html


Journalists group condemns strike on Gaza media
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090115/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_gaza_media_1


The Press Emblem Campaign (PEC) and the International Covenant for the Protection of Journalists (ICPJ) condemn shelling of building hosting media offices. http://www.mediacovenant.org/


British Academics Call for Boycotts, Divestments, and Sanctions
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/16/gaza-israel-petitions


Gush Shalom, Israel Peace Block, January 7, 2009: “The government dooms a whole generation of young Israelis to become, quite literally, war criminals”

Analysis

- Video:Israeli speaks to the BBC and asks Obama to change (instead of being a "slave" of the lobby) http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=rfnPjzOGB5s


- A 14 year old in Gaza asks on question: why?
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/01/11/a_14_year_old_in_gaza_has_one_question_why/


- Bob Simon, a life-long Zionist interviewed by Charlie Rose lets out the facts
http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/9900


- The Israeli Human Shield
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Articles/General/Story12098.html


- Zionist FAQs
http://www.palestineremembered.com/ZionistFAQ.html#Relevant


- Rethinking Zionism
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/philip-weiss/rethinking-zionism_b_156955.htm


- Norman Finkelstein on Gaza
http://www.counterpunch.org/finkelstein01132009.html


- The Gaza Ghetto Uprising January 20 The Star Newspaper
http://star.com.jo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14276&Itemid=57


- The humiliation of America
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21755.htm


- Documentary: John Pilger’s “Palestine is Still the issue”
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21692.htm


25 Actions to do
http://www.pcr.ps/activities/actions-gaza.htm


Mazin Qumsiyeh, PhD
http://qumsiyeh.org

http://www.pcr.ps

Ander said...

above and beyond international law?!@# that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Stop listening to warmongering propaganda.

Ander said...

YEah their platform may call for that, but the Jews are the ones wiping the palestinians off the face of the Earth.

Ander said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnLyDOjfusQ

Ander said...

This woman actually says that killing people helps the peace process.

Ander said...

Ok so one man was a teacher and apart of Hamas, so that justifies the killing of 30 other teachers and destorying the university and killing people on the street?

Ander said...

I can't believe you're saying that them texting people is their display of abiding by international law. They may text them and warn them but then they drop an illegal white phosphorus bomb right behind them. and what about the people who dont get texting?

Barga said...

Ander, Pete is right
also, on a side note, the UN has no jurisdiction, neither do we, and i keep thinking that we need to drop it as we are arguing from two different polysci viewpoints

Ander said...

I didn't say he was wrong. It's so insignificant it's moot. It's a pine needle on a tree on a mountain of information.

I bet you have no idea what happened in Gaza the two months leading up to this. Israel has been attacking fishing boats and limiting their fishing space. They reinstated a blockade. This violated the last cease fire agreement and is an act of war under international law.

They are finding every excuse to increase their stranglehold on those people.

you have two points of view and don't even realize it.


haha yeah lets just drop it like it doesn't exist. You're listening to a bunch of propaganda that has no bearing on reality.

"I believe that this is internal affairs and that no outside group should step in. You believe that one should." Yet you are all for 100% of our involvement in it. We are totally involved in this.

"Neither we nor the UN have a right to tell Israel what or what not to do. Sure, we could stop sending them shipments, but then they would be destroyed. Hamas is just as responsible for this as Israel (they keep firing back and forth)."

How would they be destroyed? Are you ignoring the fact that Hamas and the Palestinians have AGREED TO THE TWO STATE SOLUTION AND HAVE AGREED ON RESOLUTION AFTER RESOLUTION FOR OVER 30 YEARS? Why hasn't it happened? Because of the United States and Israel blocking it. I blame the US for aiding a terrorist state and blame Israel of committing the terrorist acts.


And what's your justification for destruction of UN hospitals and regular ones for that matter? Limiting the Red Cross' access and not allowing journalists into the territory?

Our political points of view differ in that you think killing people is justified and I don't.

Ander said...

Israel's excuse for blocking aid shipments to Gaza, We need to honor the holy days.

Ander said...

hamas has long called for a two state solution but is committed to destroying Israel so long as Israel keeps squandering it and resorting to violence and force as acceptable means of resolution.

Whalertly said...

"I bet you have no idea what happened in Gaza the two months leading up to this. Israel has been attacking fishing boats and limiting their fishing space. They reinstated a blockade. This violated the last cease fire agreement and is an act of war under international law."

--Source please. Last I checked, there was a cease fire, and then Israel noticed that members of Hamas were tunneling under their shared border.--


"They are finding every excuse to increase their stranglehold on those people."

--Arguably they have every right to. If Hamas just stopped, as they have in the past, Israel would release, as they have in the past--


"haha yeah lets just drop it like it doesn't exist. You're listening to a bunch of propaganda that has no bearing on reality."

--No, I merely realize that we are looking at two different views of polysci, internal vs. external balancing. They are mutually exclusive.--


""I believe that this is internal affairs and that no outside group should step in. You believe that one should." Yet you are all for 100% of our involvement in it. We are totally involved in this."

--You sure that I support us being involved?--


"How would they be destroyed? Are you ignoring the fact that Hamas and the Palestinians have AGREED TO THE TWO STATE SOLUTION AND HAVE AGREED ON RESOLUTION AFTER RESOLUTION FOR OVER 30 YEARS? Why hasn't it happened? Because of the United States and Israel blocking it. I blame the US for aiding a terrorist state and blame Israel of committing the terrorist acts."

--And a bunch of people in texas for years have said they support peacefully leaving the country. That doesn't mean that we need to or should recognize them--


"And what's your justification for destruction of UN hospitals and regular ones for that matter? Limiting the Red Cross' access and not allowing journalists into the territory?"

--I find this to be wrong--


"Our political points of view differ in that you think killing people is justified and I don't."

--Wrong, but nice strawman--

Ander said...

Maybe if you had even looked at the titles of what I sent you.

-Israel spokesperson admits Israel broke the cease fire agreement
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SILJxPTqjAM

CNN confirmed this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAhfDa0smsc

CNN confirmation again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEwzmJQD8eA

Gaza relief boat damaged in encounter with Israeli vessel

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/12/30/gaza.aid.boat/

Geopolitical Time Line: War, Natural Gas and Gaza's Marine Zone

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11787

War and Natural Gas: The Israeli Invasion and Gaza's Offshore Gas Fields

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11680

Gaza fishermen suffer Israeli navy harassment

http://imeu.net/news/article0015032.shtml


--And a bunch of people in texas for years have said they support peacefully leaving the country. That doesn't mean that we need to or should recognize them--

So we just should continue to not recognize the rights of palestinians?


Do you really not see that Israel is unwilling to sign the peace agreement? When the Palestinians and their representatives have been signing it for 30 years? All Israel had to do was sign the paper and grant them the same basic rights as their jewish neighbors. The same basic rights for all humans.


--You sure that I support us being involved?--

well you say israel would be wiped off the face of the earth if we weren't involved but apparently now you don't think we should be involved. I don't know, you tell me.

I don't know how a defenseless population with nothing more than rockets and mortars would wipe 8 million people off the face of the earth but thats a another matter.

--No, I merely realize that we are looking at two different views of polysci, internal vs. external balancing. They are mutually exclusive.--

It doesn't matter what view of political science you have to recognize the inequality, injustice, and human rights atrocity that is occurring and that has been occurring for 30 years. With every attempt to end it squandered by the US and Israel, only to have them turn around and continue.


--Arguably they have every right to. If Hamas just stopped, as they have in the past, Israel would release, as they have in the past--

maybe you don't understand what I mean by the term stranglehold. I mean randomly shelling population centers in the middle of the day when people are gathered. Restricting access of food and medicine shipments. Setting up more checkpoints with more intrusive searches. Would you be pissed if you had to sit in your car for 2 hours to leave your city limits and then be searched on the way in and out and if you didnt have your proper paperwork for anything you would be detained until you could present it?

And saying the point about them stopping in the past is especially wrong in this case since there is overwhelming evidence that Israel broke the ceasefire.

"Our political points of view differ in that you think killing people is justified and I don't."

--Wrong, but nice strawman--

Well then you need to clarify. You defend Israel's right to do so and by saying they have a right to do so is a justification for killing people.

Ander said...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=WHI20090107&articleId=11675

Ander said...

I think this picture sums it up nicely.

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/uploads/1231128047gaza_massacre_sign_proteste_sign.jpg

Whalertly said...

ander, I am going to be dropping this discussion now

that said, please email me
whalertly2008@gmail.com

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