Wednesday, August 20, 2008

Who Really Won Saddleback?

Post 45

So, I was sitting at my house reading the newspaper when an email popped up in my inbox from McCains staffers (I am signed up). It talked about the Straigh-Talk-Express, Obama’s stumbling, and how McCain won the Saddleback Forum. The e-mail then used this opening to ask me for money. Now, I thought about it for a second and decided that I was not going to take their word on it. Therefore, I took the transcript, went through it, and figured out who really won…

To start with, we know that Obama was the odd-man-out at this forum. The majority of questions, the interviewer, and the audience all were biased against Obama. He stumbled a bunch because he was caught of guard at most of the questions, not because he was thinking up a lie. Obama handled himself well for not knowing what was coming; the fact that McCain had answers right away make me think something fishy was going on…

This is my overall view of who won the Saddleback Forum. This is based on my belief structure and that of which I think most Americans have. Keep that in mind and use a grain of salt. The winner of each will be bolded (as are the points each score), in ties neither is bolded.

With all of the questions I am paraphrasing the question and response, please check the actual transcript to see what the real question and response were. Here is a link to the transcripts

McCain +1
Obama +7

Three Wisest People:
Obama (0)
-Mentioned Michelle as being wise and one of his three; this is a mistake as most conservatives and moderates do not like her. This choice harms Obama (-1)
– Mentions Grandmother, the woman he threw under bus. Uses her to build up feminist credentials and hard working American values (+1)
– Uses this to name names and list some people he has support of, is quite nuetray (+0).
- Talks about general David Patreas. This helps him with independents (who are shown to support staying in Iraq) and conservative, hurts him with liberals (+1)
- John Lews: who the hell is this guy? So, he sacrificed himself and then kept on sacrificing, this does nothing (+0)
- Similar to Obama’s Grandmother ratio: By mentioning Meg McCain pulls out the American Work ethic and feminist values (+1)

The Greatest Moral Failure in your life
Obama (+1)
-Very choppy response but he was thinking. This shows that he struggled with a large deal and was needing to articulate it. Admits to selfishness, lack of faith, and general humanity. (+1)
McCain (-1)
-His cheating on his wife, wow, does not admit to being troubled or anything else besides cheating. I find this to be far off of what he has said in the past and of being very political. (-1)

The Greatest Moral Failure of America
Obama (+1)
- Hits the minority shot. Good point as we are all the minority in certain circumstances. May harm him in the GE when people actually think of Race but he showed that all people are people (+1)
McCain (+1)
- McCain responds ties into my entry about how McCain is really making this a campaign about doing more for your country. He calls for volunteer work and helping each other. (+1)

Good of America over party and/or self
Obama (+0)
- Mentions his legislation with McCain. This is a good move as it shows he will work with both sides over huge objections from his party (+1)
-Mention Opposition to Iraq. This is a bad move as most Americans (who are independent) support Iraq. Furthermore, at that time Obama was pro-invasion (-1)
McCain (-1)
- I do not care what you were early on but what you have been recently.(+0)
-With torture you harmed our country by JOINING WITH YOUR PARTY. (-1)
- You have fought with your party on climate change for the better of the world (+1)
- With spending you have voted party line often enough (-1)

Flip Flopping over 10 Years
Obama (-1)
- Did not understand his response at all, sorry (-1)
McCain (-1)
- Offshore drilling is a good thing??? (-1)

Gut-wrenching Decision
Obama (-1)
- Again with Iraq, again with the unpopular position and the lie. (-1)
McCain (+1)
- His decision to stay in the Hanoi Hilton was brave and a great decision. (+1)

What does following Christ mean to you?

Obama (+0)
- Blah Blah Blah, Christ Rocks, we need to follow him (+0)
McCain (+0)
-Blah Blah Blah: STOP, STORY TIME… Christ Rocks, we need to follow him (+0)

At what point is a ‘baby’ given right
(BARGA NOTE – The use of baby here is misleading. I believe we should refer to it as Fetus)
Obama (+1)
- My Body My Choice, with limits at a certain point (+1)
McCain (-1)
-Pro-Life 100% (-1)

Marriage definition
Obama (-1)
- Throws gays under the bus but does not support an amendment (-1)
McCain (-1)
- Leaves gays where they were (under the bus already) and supports an amendment if the courts rule one way. Gets antsy about the Supreme Court (-1)

Stem Cell Research
Obama (+1)
-Used as long as they do not support Abortion and are going to be thrown out anyways. Believes that Adult Stem Cells can work well (+1)
McCain (+1)
- Supports research provided nothing else shows up (+1)

Evil exist, how should we handle it
Obama (+0)
- Blah Blah Blah, did not understand what he said (+0)
McCain (+0)
- Plans to follow Homer’s Odyssey to a tee, too bad that it is a fable (+0)

What Justice would have not nominated
Obama (+1)
- Thomas as he had no expierence and was far right (+1)
- Scalia as he is extremely intelligent but far right (+1)
-Roberts as he gave too much power to the executive branch (-1)
McCain (-4)
- Ginsburg as she legislates from the bench (-1)
- Stevens for the same reason (-1)
- Breyer for, well, the same thing again (-1)
- Souter, well, McCain should not have hit the left four of the court at all (-1)

Should Faith Based Groups get Government Cash
(BARGA NOTE: I find it interesting that the percentage was changed in each of these)
Obama (+1)
- There should be no penalty or help due to faith, only based on merits (+1)
McCain (+1)
- Same Basic Thing (+1)

Should Teachers get more pay?
McCain and Obama (+1 each)
- Yes (+1)

What is rich
Obama (+0)
- Anybody below 250,000 a year with a family (+0)
McCain (-1)
- 5,000,000????? Oh, and taxes suck (-1)

What is worth an American life?
Obama (-1)
- Go into war only when there is absolute evil and we are the only ones who can (-1)
McCain (+1)
- To protect our nation (Hey, I was in war) (+1)

Emergency Orphan Plan
Obama (+1)
-Need to work around the world, with out own local governmental and private organizations, and kick some orphan ass (+1)
McCain (+1)
- Make adoption easier, hey I adopted (+1)

What should we do to end religious prosecution
Obama (+1)
- Speak out, take a stand, use our power (+1)
McCain (+0)
- Bully the countries, imply that only Judeo-Christian matter (+0)

What do you plan to do about slavery

Why do you want to be president
Obama (+1)
- To help those who can not help themselves (+1)
McCain (+1)
- To inspire service and a JFK attitude (+1)

We are in a church, some people don’t like that, what is your response
Obama and McCain (+1 each)
- We need to talk in all forums (+1)

What would you tell America if there would be no repercussions

Right to privacy V. Security

As always, please leave any comments, no matter how large or how small about the contents of this blog post. Also, please leave any comments/suggestions about this site/post as a whole.
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Robert M. Barga,
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Anonymous said...

Clear headed and fair analysis of what went on Saturday. I hadn't looked at it quite the same way until I read your post. You really add a unique perspective.

Barga said...

Thank you, i did my best to remain clear and fair.

Ben said...

I always find it refreshing when a committed supporter of one candidate can take an honest, objective look at something like this, and decide that their candidate just didn't do as well. This would be true for both sides of the political spectrum. It's good to see that you're open to ideas.

I agree that Obama won...but then, I'm a big Obama supporter.

Mountain Sage said...

Nice analysis. I disagree on some points but that's to be expected.

Mountain Sage

Barga said...

Ben, thank you for stopping in
I always try to be honest in my approach to everything in life; i find that if you keep an open mind you and the other party can ALWAYS come to an agreement. Far too often not enough people look at things objectively...

Please feel free to come back and comment on posts that already are and that will be

Barga said...

Mountain, i figured

Anonymous said...

here's the thing with the advance answers...if McCain is indeed a senile idiot who can't recall the names of Islamic sects or even that Czechoslovakia hasn't been a country for awhile, is it truly a reasonable assumption to claim that he might have somehow memorized an entire debate beforehand?

Barga said...

He mixes things up, that does not mean he doesn't have a general understanding of things. McCain was ready for the questions, Obama not so

Hajile said...

Meh, I disagree with many of your grades.
And I have a question. You marked McCain's Pro-life support with a -1. So does this mean that you think that, in politics, it is better to have a pro-choice view? Do you think a pro-life view hurts more than it helps?

Barga said...

I think it hurts more than it helps as he needs the moderates who are mostly pro choice. Now, had he said something like "we should be pro-life but need to also adequately ensure that each child born has everything they need" then he would be golden

Hajile said...

That's right. I forgot. Trying to snag the moderates...

Barga said...

my moderate grouping is the only group that is going to matter come early november


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