Friday, January 16, 2009

Facebook says NO NIPPLES, and I agree…

Recently, it was revealed that Facebook would remove images that they deemed offensive. For some people, this came as a surprise. For others, well, they merely read the terms when they clicked the check box saying it wouldn’t be obscene. People seemed to not be up in arms about this policy until Facebook started removing images of women breastfeeding their babies. This sparked outrage, sit-ins, and a whole bunch of other useless stuff. Yes, people were pissed because an internet company decided what it wanted on its property.


Before I start, I want to point out that this is insane. A bunch of pissed of people are protesting because a private entity didn’t want them to show certain pictures on their site. These are the same people that protested ABC because Walters didn’t feel comfortable by somebody breast feeding. Seriously now, are these militant moms?

For some reason, people think that they have a right to breast feed. News Flash: you don’t. There is no fundamental right to breast feed, and definitely no right for you to do it anywhere. If you are breast feeding in the booth next to me at a restaurant, I am most likely to file a health complaint. It just isn’t sanitary (same goes to those people with the tiny dogs). If you are doing it in a theater, I am going to go ask for a refund, as I consider it disgusting and loud. If I see you sitting on a park bench, I won’t say anything, perfectly fine with it happening there. You see, I have nothing wrong with breast feeding, just where it is done.

This leads me to my next point, why do people think that it is okay to do this in public? Unless the forum is proper (a pool, the beach, a locker room), I do not go around in public places with my shirt off. Yes, I am fat, but that is not why I do it. Just isn’t proper, and people don’t want to look at it. So why do you think that whipping out your breasts is okay in any forum? When did it become acceptable to do something so revealing in public? Sure, it might be natural, but that doesn’t mean that you should show it to everybody. My penis is 100% god-given, but I don’t whip it out to be nursed on everywhere.

Which then leads to the next question, why the hell would you post it on Facebook? It is one thing to breastfeed in public (as disgusting, wrong, and bad as I think it is). It is another to decide that you should share it with the world. Why do you think that I, your college friends, or Bob from England want to see your kid sucking on your tits? Seriously, why would we want to? If you want to share with people, send them it via email. Why are you showing off something that is private to the entire world?

Teens should probably take note of that last sentence too…

Oh, and then they go, complain, protest, and bitch when people try to remove these things. This is absurd and insane. Facebook owns its property, has the right to ban the images. Plus, they shouldn’t be shared in the first place. Basically, this is just a few hundred people angry that they can not do what they want to do. I hope they get arrested for indecent exposure and that a court rules that they have no right to do this.

As a side note, what is up with those people who breastfeed for years… seriously, Oedipus complex much?

37 comments:

Kevin said...

While I do understand and agree that it's dumb as hell to post photos of this on facebook, your comparing breastfeeding to your equipment is inaccurate. Sometimes babies need to be fed and there isn't a whole lot of choice in the matter for the mother. I don't think most mothers are going to intentionally show themselves off when doing this anyway. I'm loathe to defend this, as I can't stand the usual defenders of this (crazy hippies), but you're not getting the right points here.

Barga said...

I am more accepting of it if you are in a place where either it is logical (say a beach) to be topless or if it is sanitary (a park, someplace without my food. Still do not want to see it though

That said, why did you bring the baby if this is an issue? Also, why wouldn't you just bring a bottle with breast milk in it, same concept, without the problem

Anonymous said...

You have to realise that as a global site, it has global users. And in Australia, and many other countries around the world, including many states in the USA, breastfeeding in public is legal. And to discriminate or refuse women the right to breastfeed in public including restaurant is illegal. Most people post photos on their facebook for their friends and family to see, not general public. If you don't like it, don't look at it. Just as I don't look at photos or things that I find gross. Doesn't mean it needs to be pulled of facebook

Whalertly said...

@ Anon, #3

"You have to realise that as a global site, it has global users."

--Which include children. This is an irrelevant point to my statement...--


"And in Australia, and many other countries around the world, including many states in the USA, breastfeeding in public is legal."

--What is your point? In many countries it would get you stoned... This argument is useless, and really doesn't touch the issue. I am arguing that it is not proper, nothing about the legality,--


" And to discriminate or refuse women the right to breastfeed in public including restaurant is illegal."

--Source please--


" Most people post photos on their facebook for their friends and family to see, not general public."

--That is irrelevant, as anybody can see it. I am just wondering why you don't send it to them, why let me see it by accident--


"If you don't like it, don't look at it."

--This is the good point, but again, doesn't actually address the problem. You are assuming that it is great to happen, but don't explain why. I could shoot a person, you don't like it, don't watch...--


" Just as I don't look at photos or things that I find gross. Doesn't mean it needs to be pulled of facebook"

--But it violated the terms, which you agreed. That alone means it should be pulled off--

Jeff said...

You need to do some research dude because there are many laws in place to protect breastfeeding mothers and babies rights. It is unlawful for a person to ask a breastfeeding pair to leave a public place. You really need to ask yourself why you are so opposed to breasts and babies being fed by them.
Delve a bit into biology and law and human breastmilk as well as formula before you spew more uneducated crap out of that blow hole of yours!

Anonymous said...

a woman's breast is not obscene, especially when it's mostly obscured by a suckling infant. breastfeeding is not unsanitary because breast milk is not unsanitary. "militant moms" are protesting because public breastfeeding should not be offensive to any reasonable person.

you play gaiaonline and hate titties. you are a child. qed

sarsie said...

How old is the author? Have you not seen a breast before? Do you seriously care about YOUR issues of a little baby nursing over the fact that a BABY wants a drink? You have some serious issues and are obviously very ignorant. It is people like you that turn so many women off breastfeeding. I guess you would be happier if all babies where fed artificial substitutes that increase the risk of death and illness. Jeeeesh big man you are. :\

Whalertly said...

@5, Jeff

You can tell me there are many laws, but you don't tell me where or in what capacity. Please link me to these laws so that we can both reference them for this debate.

It can not be unlawful for a person to ask somebody ANYTHING, at least not here in America (not being ethnocentric, just correcting)

I am quite aware of the biology, which is why i mentioned breast milk in bottles. Formulas can not contain everything that breast milk does, but it does contain everything needed as well.

Whalertly said...

@6, Anonymous

Why do you contend that the breast is not obscene? Obscene is a loaded word, yes, but it means different things to different people. I think that it is inappropriate to share it on the facebook forum

Prove that it is sanitary

Nice ad hominim there

Whalertly said...

@7, sarsie

I am as old as I am. I have at least two decades on me, but not yet three. Please reread my post, I say nothing is wrong with breastfeeding, merely the forum (posting pictures on facebook where anybody can see it) is wrong

Anonymous said...

Your argument could not be more idiotic. Comparing a mother's breast feeding her infant to whatever fat moobs you have going on, comparing seeing a mother breastfeed to seeing someone get shot? You have no logical thought process whatsoever and clearly do not grasp even the basic biological functions of the human body. Breastfeeding is "unsanitary"?? If you bothered to learn anything at all before you wrote this total crap, you might have learned that breastmilk is one of the most sanitary substances produced naturally - it actually kills germs. But I know facts would have stood in the way of your Oedipal rant. Get counseling, and try getting out of your parents' basement long enough to actually figure out what breasts are for. Blog about things you actually know, like not getting laid and playing Halo online for hours at a time.

Whalertly said...

@10, anonymous

Source on this killing germs claim please

you should probably stop the personal attacks, they do not help your cause at all

ACG said...

Ask and ye shall receive:

* Forty states, the District of Columbia and the Virgin Islands have laws with language specifically allowing women to breastfeed in any public or private location (Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont and Wyoming).

* Twenty-five states and the Virgin Islands exempt breastfeeding from public indecency laws (Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New York, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin and Wyoming).

* Twenty one states, the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico have laws related to breastfeeding in the workplace (California, Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, New Mexico, New York, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, Virginia, Washington and Wyoming).

* Eleven states and Puerto Rico exempt breastfeeding mothers from jury duty (California, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Mississippi, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oregon and Virginia).

* Five states and Puerto Rico have implemented or encouraged the development of a breastfeeding awareness education campaign (California, Illinois, Minnesota, Missouri and Vermont).

National Conference of State Legislatures

ACG said...

As for the comment that "it can not be unlawful for a person to ask somebody ANYTHING, at least not here in America," that's not true. For instance, the Americans With Disabilities Act forbids any business owner or employee from asking a disabled person with a service animal certain questions (what their disability is, for instance, or for a demonstration of the animal's training). That's just the first example that comes to mind; if you're still skeptical, I'm sure I can round up more examples.

Anonymous said...

regarding sanitary nature of breast milk:

you have already suggested "breast milk in bottles" as an alternative to public breastfeeding. if you did not believe that breast milk was sanitary and safe for consumption, why would you suggest this?

also please note that you are the one who said that breastfeeding "isn't sanitary." this is neither a common nor a logical statement, so i would expect that the burden of proof is on you, not us.

consider this: you're in a restaurant, and a young child is seated in an adjacent booth. he blows milk out of his nose all over the floor between your booths. does that warrant a health complaint? no, because cow milk (like human milk) is not a hazardous substance. as long as it gets cleaned up, there's no danger to your health. the same can be said if an infant coughs up some breast milk while feeding.

also, you play gaiaonline

Annie @ PhD in Parenting said...

Where I live there is actually a right to breastfeed anytime, anywhere. It is enshrined in legislation and legal precedents.

The rest of your argument is just as ridiculous as that inaccurate statement.

For those wanting to see the other side of the story, check out this:
http://phdinparenting.com/2008/12/30/breaking-it-down-for-facebook/

Candace April said...

1. Breastmilk in a bottle is not the same as breastfeeding. Neither of my babies did the bottle thing.

2. I am not a crazy hippie or a nudist. I'm quite conservative, actually.

3. A breast is not, to state the obvious, a penis. A breast on a nursing mother is a mammary gland, for the production of milk. A penis is a sex organ. Breasts may be sexualized in our culture, but they are not sex organs.

4. Eating is a social thing in our culture. Sex is not. Therefore any comparisons to sex (an act that is private in almost every culture in every time) are silly.

5. Breastfeeding is necessary for breastfed children and a public health good. If you do not want to see my child eat, please just do not look.

6. Facebook has a right to remove any image, but its policy is silly & hypocritical & runs contrary to obscenity law in the very state in which it is headquartered.

randlsmommy said...

First off, the photos that were taken down were in private albums of mothers. I have one nursing pic that was taken on vaca. It was in with all of the other vaca pics. Not only that, but most people couldn't tell what I was doing.
Also, you are so misinformed. You would NOT be able to file a health complaint. You actually would have no rights against that mother and the nursing baby. In most states(all but two, I believe), that mother and baby's rights are protected over your right to be a jerk. If you made a fuss, you would actually be breaking the law, but if you wanted to, have fun. See where it gets you.
Also, when a woman becomes a mother, life does not stop. Sorry, but we are expected to keep up with our daily duties. Keeping breastfeeding behind closed doors as so many people like to suggest is just not possible.
People say, why not formula feed. Sorry, but breast feeding is free. Do you know how much a tin of formula cost?!? $22.50! That lasts 3-4 days at best. I don't know about you, but I don't have that money.
Bottom line. Have some kids, then see how you feel about all of this. It's easy to say all of this, but once you actually walk the walk, I think your feelings are going to change. If not, I feel sorry for you.

Sara said...

ROFL

oh. Wait. you're not kidding? Too bad. It would have been a funny post.

It's obvious that you don't understand the mechanics of breastfeeding.

As for the "Right" to breastfeed argument.. Wrong. There is a law in every single state that protects a woman's right to breastfeed wherever she and her baby are allowed. We have an explicit right to breastfeed wherever and whenever we are. Interestingly enough, we do not have an explicitly defined right to do a variety of other things. No where does it say we have the right to breathe (unless you take into account that denying someone the right to breathe would be denying them the right to life). Or to wear a sweater into a restaurant. Or a lot of other things. But we DO have the explicit right to breastfeed wherever we have the right to be.

Sara said...

BTW, the "there are children' argument is absurd. What is the objection to children seeing breastfeeding? Children today are more likely to be exposed to PORNOGRAPHY walking down the street than to breastfeeding.

We have a choice: Children can grow up thinking of breasts as sexual things. Why not? Every single news stand in America, many billboards, almost every movie, many storefronts... A ton of advertisements show breasts sexually. To the point where there are twelve year old girls in push-up bras and miniskirts.

Or we can make sure that children grow up seeing breasts as nourishing and comforting for babies.

IMO the latter is the better option. It preserves innocence.

I wish my son could grow up seeing more babies being breastfed. Because there certainly is no limit to the amount of sexuality that is openly flaunted in public on a daily basis.

randlsmommy said...

http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/breast50.htm

Here is the summary of the breastfeeding laws in the US. So here's your source you wanted.

Whalertly said...

@ACG

I trust your source, but that changes nothing. I already okayed it in public, on public areas. I believe that the government has no right to police the private sector (unless interstate) and thus I could ban you from my store for doing it. THat said, having laws does not make it right


They can ask, there just are punishments for it. But wait, I am sure that doesn't exist, as it would have been overturned in courts

Whalertly said...

@anon

if the kid did that I would ask to be moved immediatly. I understand what is within all of our bodies, and I don't want what is in your in mine if I can help it.

It is hard to play something when it is not a game

Whalertly said...

@Annie

no, there are three rights. Initially we had no rights, and lived in the Hobbsian anarchy. Then, we created social contracts which kept three rights (life liberty property)... Just because something is in law does not make it a right.

Whalertly said...

@candice april

i like lists, nice job

Whalertly said...

@randls

seeing as I have filed that complaint before, I have no idea why you say i would not be allowed to. It is not against the law to complain or petition, which is what it was

Whalertly said...

@sara

you so sure that i wasn't kidding?

Law=/=right, please understand this. This is a very important aspect in our country

Anonymous said...

i agree with the writer...yeah well breastfeeding is natural but y upload their pictures on facebook...well one way i are arguing that facebook abuses ur privacy and next way u are flashing ur boobs in public...well there u loose ur side of argument.
its a globel site...thank to hollywood and all,boobs is veiwed more as sex organ than nourising gland.
breast milk are great!!all shud be entitled to feed there babies..but us hud also be discreet enough to respect other people's presence...we find it gross.
do it in ur house...cover it with something and do it in public...but plz...don't make us wantch it in social networking site.if u want to share it use mails...and its private property..and violating the terms is trespassing which is aginst the law..
WHARTLEY..its insane.

Whalertly said...

I do not care if you are on my side or not, please use proper English and real grammar.

Anonymous said...

ooie ma merai bhasa ma lkhte tara soche ki taile bujdinas hla..tesaile angrezi ma lekhya.

does that make sense?
well, i would have written in my own language.I assumed,inspite of all ur arrogance, you wouldn't understand the language.My bad!

I am sorry.

Not really!!
I will write any damn thing i want to. I have freedom of expression.
if you don't like it put a sign,somewhere in bottom, that reads "ONLY ENGLISH SPEAKARS ALLOWED TO COMMENT".

P.S. i wasn't looking for your approval.

Uploading breastfeeding pictures on facebook is obscene.

Whalertly said...

I apologize if I in any way offended you. I didn't know that you were not a native speaker, and you typed like our idiotic teenagers do. I was thinking you were one of them. Again, sorry...

Anonymous said...

Hi

I am firstly very interested to know how you manage to see a nipple of a woman who is breastfeeding, as quite obviously the babies head is hiding it?

Secondly I would like to understand how you manage to see the difference of a baby being held asleep in your arms and actually suckling - as it looks exactly the same, unless the mother strips when she is feeding?

I have breastfed in restaurants, at the beach, in museums, at the mall (garden furniture department), in airplanes, trains, basically anywhere my babies needed to be fed.
The only people who ever were aware of the fact I was doing it were those who actually approached very closely to see the babies "sleeping face"!

I personally begin to believe that in a time where we put babies into tummies via IVF and get them out via cesarian - we cannot possibly imagine any more that they should actually be breastfed - all of them!

Barga said...

hi person from France, hope that you come back and read the blog often...

The issue is based on sanitation, and I believe that breast milk is unsnitary (as are little kids grabbing food and throwing it, etc.)

Anonymous said...

Hi Barga

unsanitary - well in general I could write a whole monologue about us being far too sanitary and therefor not protected against any germs any more - needing more and more antibiotics to fight of the slightest infection now.

But in this context, I don't quite get why breastmilk going straight from the breast via the nipple into the baby's mouth could ever be unsanitary? It is not squirting all over the place, not even dripping, so...?

It is like a Mom giving a baby a kiss, the saliva goes straight from the mothers mouth onto the baby and does not drip or squirt anywhere.

Concerning breastmilk in bottles: Now THAT is unsanitary, because unless really well kept, it develops germs.
This is why mothers don't have to wash before, during or after breastfeeding, the milk is "steril" - so to speak.
You put you baby in danger by putting your milk in a bottle, as firstly the bottle will have to be sterilized and after you have to keep it at the right temperature long enough not to develop germs.

Now, how do you do that, when you shop in a mall?

Furthermore, imagine you do keep it in some sort of coolerbag - then it will be too cold to be given to the baby when it is hungry. So you go and sit in a Pizza Hut and ask them to stick your sterilized baby bottle in their dirty microwave, full of splashes from greasy pizza - and you think that is better for the baby?


No mother could ever accept anything as silly as that. And I have not even mentioned the hilarious job of puping, yet! Sitting down and pumping the milk is already ridiculously long and complicated (the pump has to be sterilized each time) - considering the few oz of milk you get pumping manually - it is a hilarious job!


Honestly, babies only survive via breastmilk, that is sterile, at the right temperature, carries antibodies to protect it and gives the baby enough water when it is hot, or less water, when it is cold. There is just nothing you can do about it and cow's or soy milk no matter how good it might be will ever be able to replace that - it the contrary: mothers can eat what is best to produce best milk, but you will never be sure what you really find in formula.

Honestly Barga - have you ever seen a mother breastfeed in public?
I don't even get where you find the idea of being topless doing that.
Would you like me to explain how mums actually proceed? As I said - I am sure you walked past many of them and did not notice a thing, as you, too either thought she was holding a sleeping baby or just did not notice at all. It is just so "banal" as we say in France... (meaning ordinary)

Anonymous said...

To Whalertly

Hi
I've seen you being upset with that foreign guy not using proper language, but it is YOU who wrote:

"My penis is 100% god-given, but I don’t whip it out to be nursed on everywhere."

As well as:

"Why do you think that I, your college friends, or Bob from England want to see your kid sucking on your tits?"

You know what? If breastfeeding would not be such an issue (especially in America, it seems), would not have to be protected by law (I mean HOW silly is that???), people might not want to be militant about it, what do you think?


I am frankly tired of people looking at me pregnant, having a proper coffee or half a glass of red wine, as if I was about to kill my unborn baby.

But as soon as the baby is born noone gives a sh... about feeding it cow's or soy milk???
Just because it does not come out of breasts?
This is ludicrous! Newborn babies are soooo fragile - their digestive system has been programmed to digest their mum's milk, not a dodgy supstitute in powder form. Did you know that you cannot mix powder formula with just any water, as babies cannot not have mineral water that contains too much salt for exemple?

Do you realize how complicated it is to try and reproduce artificially what we have been equipped with in order to make sure our children survive their first weeks, months or years?

Mother's milk contains a certain percentage of antibodies - now, what would you think why this is so?
Breastfed children don't get an awful lot of deseases at all or in much weaker form that bottle fed babies in the first 6 months of their lives (ex. chicken pox).

So, yes, we do and even we HAVE TO feed everywhere and anywhere. Babies eat up to 12 times a day (especially when it is hot), so unless you lock the mums into their homes, it will have to be done in public.

Now, technically:
You sit down, lay your baby on your lap (so it is hiding your tummy), put its head in front of the "tit", pull up the shirt, and that's it.
Noone sees anything, noone has the right to interfere - otherwise you will get "loud" (babie's cries can be stronger in decibel that slashhammers - and there is a reason for it!)

So, Whalertly: I can confirm, you will survive, even if you don't whip whatever 100% god-given to be nursed in public, but a new-born does not.

And just let the mums who are not ashamed of breastfeeding show Bob from England and Tracy from work.

Thanks

Anonymous said...

Hi - me again, just one last thing:

About those who doubt breast milk being sanitary or not,

please google:

"breast milk + antibacterial"


You'll be surprised what breast milk can do...

Bye bye

Whalertly said...

I do not believe that my statement was grammatically incorrect so I see no need to complain about it.

Here is the thing, I have some issues with a mother breastfeeding in public but will not bitch about it. However, my question really amounts to why a person would post that sort of image on Facebook...

also, you people should check out the rest of the blog

Redirect

You will be redirected shortly to our new website. If you are not redirected within 5 seconds please CLICK HERE!

Copyright Notice

(C) All articles, postings, images, etc. on this site are protected by relevant copyright law, unless otherwise specified. To use any original material in totality please ask for author permission.

(C) 2009, all rights reserved by whalertly.blogspot.com, Robert M. Barga, and all contributing authors.